Forum:2013-02-27 (Wednesday)
Discussion for comic for . ( ) ---- ' ' Finally, instead of the little vignettes involving small units of Wulfenbach troops and elements of Der Kestle, and even though we could surmise how the larger picture looked, we get an actual picture of just how well the overall battle has lately been going for the Wulfenbach contingent. So, the air fleet is now down by 33% and what's left is flying blind; a significant portion of communications is just gone and what's left is either raving mad or reporting impossibilities; based on those little vignettes the ground forces are in serious trouble, and the Wulfenbach Castle is listing by a good 20 degrees, with at least one engine room destroyed, the hull losing integrity, and the wheelhouse on fire, and that's just within the first hour or so after Der Kestle had regained its faculties. It could be surmised that Wulfenbach forces have never really had a major challenge before; most are comprised of forces captured and re-purposed by the Baron after he overcame them, and all were therefore fielded only after the Other war, so it's likely that none ever had to go up against anything as powerful as the Heterodyne faction (not that any of those who existed when the Heterodynes were in power would ever have dared). The Baron might always have been a step ahead of everyone, but he apparently didn't consider the possibility that Der Kestle might regain its functions during his attack; he seemed to be conducting this as a slightly larger squash-the-dissenter campaign. Jagerdraught Braumeister (talk) 06:08, February 27, 2013 (UTC) :That's a fair summary, Jagerdraught. -- Billy Catringer (talk) 10:08, February 27, 2013 (UTC) : To be fair to the Baron, he may never have seen the castle in all-out attack mode, and the sparks working for the past fifteen years could have augmented some of the castles abilities. It could also be the castle never used all of its resources because it was never dealing with an attach force as large as the Baron's force. Argadi (talk) 10:39, February 27, 2013 (UTC) : Also remember that the Baron was in position to essentially liquify the castle until other (Other?) influences led him to change his strategy. I suspect he knew what could have happened, but his hand was forced into this course of action. : Oh, and in case anyone wants to know: I LOVE Klaus. Best character in the story. Xelvonar (talk) 14:06, February 27, 2013 (UTC) Two things I noticed: : The Baron is in the wheelhouse, not the situation room. Why? He thought (up until a moment ago) that his staff had the situation under control and he didn't need to monitor it personally? He heard of an attack at the wheelhouse and rushed up to see it personally? : And what is the Baron holding in his hand? Are those goggles that he was wearing up until a moment ago? Or a gas mask? Or the faceplate of an enemy that he has just personally dismembered? NathanTheRammer (talk) 16:38, February 27, 2013 (UTC) ::I am wont to say that it is a "Rust Crab" but can't be certain of it. -- Billy Catringer (talk) 17:03, February 27, 2013 (UTC) ::: Rust Spider? Argadi (talk) 18:28, February 27, 2013 (UTC) ::::There's a difference? Would you please tell that to my subconscious? Thanks, Billy Catringer (talk) 01:11, February 28, 2013 (UTC) ::: I think that's -half- of a Rust Spider. (They're EVERYWHERE!) -- SpareParts (talk) 01:37, February 28, 2013 (UTC) ::: I'm guessing that he was already in the wheelhouse, and that it took a hit just before the scene we see. Remember that when Klaus was in the hospital and Gil was about to smash the warstompers, he (Klaus) said he needed to see the battlefield, because if he could see it, he could direct the battle. He was probably in the wheelhouse with those nice, big windows so he could see what was happening (maybe after getting all kinds of reports that he was "losing" units all over the place). He's shouting "status" because he wants to know how bad the hit they just took was, and what else is going on. Jagerdraught Braumeister (talk) 03:59, February 28, 2013 (UTC) I still think it's possible that Klaus may not actually want to win this battle, even if he is compelled to make some sort of effort to fight. If that's the case, it could explain a lot of strategic goofs we otherwise wouldn't expect from him. Mskala (talk) 17:14, February 27, 2013 (UTC) : That theory has good points, but Klaus wouldn't want to lose Castle Wulfenbach and much of his fleet in the process. That would destroy Pax Transylvania. Argadi (talk) 18:28, February 27, 2013 (UTC) :: interfering with the other's plans may very well take precedence over that. Finn MacCool (talk) 18:53, February 27, 2013 (UTC) :That makes as much sense as the stupid conspiracy theory that FDR knew about and allowed the Pearl Harbor attack. A former vice secrectary of the Navy would not want the Pacific fleet on the bottom of Pearl Harbor and out of action just to enter the war to help Brittain fight Germany. Klaus' forces were sweeping through Mechanicsburg, methodically leveling it, just prior to this. He hardly looked like he was pulling his punches. AndyAB99 (talk) 11:37, February 28, 2013 (UTC) ::I thought the background of my remark was clear, but maybe not. Klaus is under incomplete mind control. He is wasped, he knows he is wasped, LuNevka has forced him to do things he doesn't want to do, but the control is not complete and he has also done things (like telling Phil the ogress and wolf story) that go against the Other's plans. All of that has been shown explicitly in the comic - it's not speculation. We don't know what the part of him that is not controlled currently really believes about whether Agatha is the Other or not, but he knows that LuNevka is the Other for sure. He definitely wants the Other to be defeated. If Agatha isn't the Other, then she represents the best hope of defeating the Other - much better than House Wulfenbach, which Klaus well knows is taking orders from a leader partially controlled by the Other. Losing Castle Wulfenbach, his own life, and everything else, would be worth it if that's what it takes to defeat the Other; and that kind of calculation is exactly the way Klaus has always conducted his affairs. Wasting resources in the current battle denies their use to the Other in future battles. I'm not saying that he's willing to lose this battle for tactical advantage so he can eventually defeat Agatha - I'm saying that he may be willing to sacrifice everything in order to allow Agatha to defeat the Other. Nothing is more important than stopping the Other. Mskala (talk) 15:36, February 28, 2013 (UTC) ::::I agree with Mskala. As noted elsewhere on this page, Klaus was actually in a position to destroy Castle Heterodyne. He passed it up and made his people come up with a whole new plan based on capturing Agatha, and attributed it to Boris's information. Granted, he referred to Agatha as some sort of queen revenant, but what Boris must have actually told him is about the locket. The locket, which Klaus examined, repaired, and brought to the circus with him. He probably has a better idea what's going on with it than almost anybody else in the story. PersephoneKore (talk) 09:00, March 4, 2013 (UTC) At least they aren't losing altitude as that is definetly the last thing Klaus (or anybody else on either side of the battle) would want to hear. Hopefully Castle Wulfenbach isn't anywhere near the town. As for the 'smoke', it would be known in our universe as chaff. Basically it's a cloud of metallic dust or something which jams the electronic signals and radar. Given that the use of airships in battle has been around for a while (20 years at least, according to the old master sergeant a couple pages back), I'm a bit surprised that they haven't encountered someone using something to jam their electronics before. 22:53, February 27, 2013 (UTC) : But perhaps electronic instruments (if that's what they are using) have been around a considerably shorter amount of time than airships. We don't know how long ago anything was invented in the GG universe. --William Ansley (talk) 03:37, February 28, 2013 (UTC) ::True, the electronics jamming smokescreen could very well be an augmentation done by one of the castle inmates over the last 15 years. Possibly someone with inside information about the electronics and communications systems. Doubt it's any of those former castle prisioners that are currently alive though. 04:22, February 28, 2013 (UTC) ::Bliss, Total Bliss. At seeing this page. Anyhow... given the Heterodynes and the Castle... why would the smoke be simple chaff? Each and every single Heterodyne thing pre-The Heterodyne Boys is a montrous horror you'd never want to encounter by itself. So much more likely to be a swarm of tiny insect bots. Or airborne acid, or even fungal rust spores. On a stray side note. I'm kind of curious on what's necessary for the Castle to assimilate foreign constructs into its own sphere of control. Both direct control as well as being able to freely pull apart and reassemble again. -- Br'fin (talk) 10:18, February 28, 2013 (UTC) :::Anyone else thinking about the black smoke from lost? Agge.se (talk) 15:29, February 28, 2013 (UTC) I think Klaus is entirely shocked by the Castle being fully functional. He wasn't planning to lose the battle. Rather, he had a dozen different plans going. Some of them were layers for skilled snoops to discover (like the public story and the secret story of Gil's identity when he was young), but most of them were focused either on getting Gil under control (as Klaus was commanded to do) or on keeping Gil free (as Klaus wants to do). These plans have to be subtle, given that he's scheming against some of the cleverest people in the world, starting with himself. He presumably has spies in Mechanicsburg -- and spies on other people who have spies there, and direct recon, and overt contacts -- all of which have been indicating that the Castle was barely able to maintain consciousness, if not killed outright. He wasn't just lying to fool Gil here: . And Zog wasn't kidding here when he said the Baron had excessive force. Klaus's old plans are in ruins, and his new plans are a bit difficult to implement given the communications breakdown. However, I bet he has improved on The Lion, probably even developing a medium-range weapon based on the principle. Or if not, he soon will. --Dsws (talk) 05:33, March 1, 2013 (UTC)